Bulk

[Brandon Williams]

Hey guys, I had a question regarding a bulk. I’ve heard Joe mention doing a 10-12 week bulk and then a 10-14 day cut before bulking again. I would like to follow this format but am not sure how aggressive of a deficit to be in for those 2 weeks. Should I be targeting a deficit to drop a significant amount of lbs for 14 days or is this more dependent on body fat % to determine how low deficit should be? (want to put on as much muscle as possible but don’t want to become a hippo in the process) Thanks, love the site.

[Joe]

Search “recovery” and make sure you watch all the videos I have. For a lot more detail. I’d say as a ballpark though, as long as you change the training (as outlined in those videos), go for around 1000cal/day deficit. For most people, over two weeks you should drop 5-8 pounds (including water), and if you have an accurate way of measuring body fat, shoot to lose 1-2%. The real goal should be to take your BF% back to your “baseline” which for me as around 10ish. So when I bulk, I might get to 11-12, and over the cut I wanna get back around 10. And repeat

[Anonymous]

Nothing against Joe’s methodologies but personally I am not a big advocate of these mini cut phases, especially if you are a natural trainee. Building new muscle takes a lot of time and I think many are just going to end up spinning their wheels by going back and forth all the time.

So as I don’t know your current stats, body composition, genetics etc my (and this is just one moron’s opinion) suggestion would be, unless you are way over 15% of body fat and/or your abs are completely washed out I’d just keep gradually (key word) pushing the weight up until you reach the point where things are starting to look a bit too uncomfortable in the mirror.

 

As far as the deficit goes as already stated closer to 1.0% of your body weight per week and probably no longer than 6 weeks.

[Joe]

Anonymous wrote:

Nothing against Joe’s methodologies but personally I am not a big advocate of these mini cut phases, especially if you are a natural trainee. Building new muscle takes a lot of and I think many are just going to end up spinning their wheels by going back and forth all the .

So as I don’t know your current stats, body composition, genetics etc my (and this is just one moron’s opinion) suggestion would be, unless you are way over 15% of body fat and/or your abs are completely washed out I’d just keep gradually (key word) pushing the weight up until you reach the point where things are starting to look a bit too uncomfortable in the mirror.

 

As far as the deficit goes as already stated closer to 1.0% of your body weight per week and probably no longer than 6 weeks.

I’m all for open discussions on the forum, but please consider where you are posting. People are literally paying for my professional opinion. If people come to you for you personal opinion, great. Answer away on your own personal accounts etc. Once you’ve trained as many natural trainees as I have for near two decades, you’ll have a better perspective on how minicuts will not only have you not “spinning your wheels”, done properly they will help you progress faster. As there are no physiological benefits to adding lean tissue as your body fat goes over 10-12 percent. (Although if it helps adherence, because can certainly “perms-bulk” and still make progress)

[Anonymous]

Okay gotcha. I just joined the boards so didn’t know these threads are for general discussion.

As far as what the ideal body fat % is there’s obviously a genetic factor when it comes to differences in individual settling points.
And just to point out I am definitely not advocating of getting overly fat but just stating that some people carry that excess fluff much better than others. To me 12 doesn’t sound super high but if by your anecdotal experience that’s the upper limit I am not going to argue with that.
Cheers ✌

[Anonymous]

And one more thing I want to highlight is when we talk about bulk I am not referring to the notorious ‘fulk’ (fat-bulk) 🙂

[Joe]

Anonymous wrote:

Okay gotcha. I just joined the boards so didn’t know these threads are for general discussion.

As far as what the ideal body fat % is there’s obviously a genetic factor when it comes to differences in individual settling points.
And just to point out I am definitely not advocating of getting overly fat but just stating that some people carry that excess fluff much better than others. To me 12 doesn’t sound super high but if by your anecdotal experience that’s the upper limit I am not going to argue with that.
Cheers ✌

It’s not anecdotal. It’s clinical. I have literally thousands on individual body fat %s in my iPad from the last decade+ of clients. (Not just one off measurements, most of them were monitoring clients over month or years, with awareness of every other factor outside of just the caliper reading)

[Anonymous]

Well it’s definitely interesting that you say that because some of the best and most successful natural bodybuilding coaches I’ve listened are in the believe that one of the biggest things holding people back from making the most out of their offseason is getting too emotionally attached to looking a certain way, ie. the way the social media wants to see you.

And usually the people who are willing to accept the fact of getting a bit out of shape in the offseason often times also end up making the best improvements in their physique compared to the ones who constantly hover on the leaner side.

Although it’s super broscientific there just seems to be something about pushing up the body weight and reaching those new limits in that regard as well.

[Joe]

Anonymous wrote:

Well it’s definitely interesting that you say that because some of the best and most successful natural bodybuilding coaches I’ve listened are in the believe that one of the biggest things holding people back from making the most out of their offseason is getting too emotionally attached to looking a certain way, ie. the way the social media wants to see you.

And usually the people who are willing to accept the fact of getting a bit out of shape in the offseason often s also end up making the best improvements in their physique compared to the ones who constantly hover on the leaner side.

Although it’s super broscientific there just seems to be something about pushing up the body weight and reaching those new limits in that regard as well.

I’ve done a post on this. And yes, I agree. Emotional attachment too anything is the biggest thing that prevents people from putting on too much size. I’ve done both. I’ve had clients do both. On paper, the mini cuts work best. (Which is why I write that) But when working one on one, what works best is always individual dependent. Some people get emotional attached to being lean, and never push through the discomfort of eating that may be necessary to get bigger. But it’s the exact same for “perms bulk”. They get emotionally attached to that, and end up fat and hormonally a mess…because that are unwilling to push through the discomfort of occasional cuts. Either way. It’s emotional attachment and unwillingness to endure discomfort that prevents progress for either. And 10-12% is not “too lean or insta-lean”. I agree, most people trying to stay sub-8 percent body fat to look good for posts are limiting progress

[Anonymous]

Joe wrote:

I’ve done a post on this. And yes, I agree. Emotional attachment too anything is the biggest thing that prevents people from putting on too much size. I’ve done both. I’ve had clients do both…

May I ask what are the ranges you follow with female competitors/clients?

[Anonymous]

Joe wrote:

I’ve done a post on this. And yes, I agree. Emotional attachment too anything is the biggest thing that prevents people from putting on too much size. I’ve done both. I’ve had clients do both. On paper, the mini cuts work best. (Which is why I write that) But when working one on one, what works best is always individual dependent. Some people get emotional attached to being lean, and never push through the discomfort of eating that may be necessary to get bigger. But it’s the exact same for “perms bulk”. They get emotionally attached to that, and end up fat and hormonally a mess…because that are unwilling to push through the discomfort of occasional cuts. Either way. It’s emotional attachment and unwillingness to endure discomfort that prevents progress for either. And 10-12% is not “too lean or insta-lean”. I agree, most people trying to stay sub-8 percent body fat to look good for posts are limiting progress

 

testing….

[Anonymous]

Joe wrote:

Fella Finn wrote:

Well it’s definitely interesting that you say that because some of the best and most successful natural bodybuilding coaches I’ve listened are in the believe that one of the biggest things holding people back from making the most out of their offseason is getting too emotionally attached to looking a certain way, ie. the way the social media wants to see you. And usually the people who are willing to accept the fact of getting a bit out of shape in the offseason often s also end up making the best improvements in their physique compared to the ones who constantly hover on the leaner side. Although it’s super broscientific there just seems to be something about pushing up the body weight and reaching those new limits in that regard as well.

I’ve done a post on this. And yes, I agree. Emotional attachment too anything is the biggest thing that prevents people from putting on too much size. I’ve done both. I’ve had clients do both…

May I ask what are the ranges you follow with female competitors?

[Joe]

Anonymous wrote:

[quote quote=16342]

Fella Finn wrote:
Well it’s definitely interesting that you say that because some of the best and most successful natural bodybuilding coaches I’ve listened are in the believe that one of the biggest things holding people back from making the most out of their offseason is getting too emotionally attached to looking a certain way, ie. the way the social media wants to see you. And usually the people who are willing to accept the fact of getting a bit out of shape in the offseason often s also end up making the best improvements in their physique compared to the ones who constantly hover on the leaner side. Although it’s super broscientific there just seems to be something about pushing up the body weight and reaching those new limits in that regard as well.
I’ve done a post on this. And yes, I agree. Emotional attachment too anything is the biggest thing that prevents people from putting on too much size. I’ve done both. I’ve had clients do both…

May I ask what are the ranges you follow with female competitors?[/quote]
Ranges for what? Off seasons? There is always a little bit of variability based on the individual, (because progress is king), but for men, generally 10-13%, and women 16-20%

[Author]

Posts