Delts and Single Joint Muscles strength profile

HypertrophyCoach Joe Bennett Forums Training Delts and Single Joint Muscles strength profile

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  • #273772
    Rei Koka
    Participant

    Hey Joe and Bryce!

    I recently watched a video from Tom Purvis on YouTube I think its titled Biomechanics of Strength is a 2 hour video, but there was smth that grabbed my attention that I wanted to ask you. I don’t like asking these sort of questions for ethical reasons as I respect you and Tom insanely a lot and this is not me trying to put smth for debate like the ig bs sometimes. When I have seen your videos on the strength profile on the HC University of the app I saw a graph for delts that had more of a bell shaped curve, meaning smth that represented strong in the lengthened position, strongest at mid range and weakest at the short end. On tom’s video he separated the strength and resistance profile a bit differently where he separated two joint muscles like biceps triceps etc meaning muscles that cross over two joints, and then he mentioned single joint muscles meaning muscles that only cross one joint. The grap for muscles that only crossed one joint looked a much steeper curve going from very strong in the lengthened position and progressively getting weaker at the short position, he also mentioned that the reason for that was that single joint muscles never get to a quote on quote stretched position to get into that fully lengthened position so even the graph started like in the middle quite away from the y axis and as an example he mentioned the deltoid muscle. So in terms of delts and glutes which if I am not mistaken are also a single joint muscle as they only cross over the hip joint ? I know Tom is like the godfather of strength and resistance profile but were you incorrect on the videos on the university as I know rts is always evolving and getting better I mean Tom says that himself but my question is was this smth that you might have heard or learned after the video was made and also which graph represents the real strength profile of the deltoid?

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    #274823
    Simo Matikainen
    Participant

    There is muance to this as all the muscles work slightly differently so that graph you are showing isnt right for all muscles at all. In terms of side deltoid for example, you cant really stretch it much etc. And the resistance curves Joe uses is general strength profile + he has separate videos on dofferent muscle which are all little bit different if you havent watched it. So the graph you are showing is not right for all muscles so it doesnt really show the big picture, Joe on the other hand has videos of different muscle resistance curves that are more spesific.

    #274857
    Rei Koka
    Participant

    There is muance to this as all the muscles work slightly differently so that graph you are showing isnt right for all muscles at all. In terms of side deltoid for example, you cant really stretch it much etc. And the resistance curves Joe uses is general strength profile + he has separate videos on dofferent muscle which are all little bit different if you havent watched it. So the graph you are showing is not right for all muscles so it doesnt really show the big picture, Joe on the other hand has videos of different muscle resistance curves that are more spesific and better imo. This one goes to Joe for sure.

    Dude I am not trying to compare here so its not about well Joe you won the round, and tbh I would be careful before calling any RTS stuff as wrong, and if you havent seen the video that I mentioned above you cant possibly make the predicition that its wrong. Just like Joe’s graphs the ones there are a general representation for the representative muscles. The two graphs are different because its the difference between two joint muscles ( muscles that cross two joints e.g. biceps crosses over the shoulder joint and the elbow joint) and one joint muscles ( e.g. delts which only cross over the shoulder joint ). And I have seen Joe’s videos on the hypertrophy university and his graph about the delts looks different compared to the 2nd picture attached on my text above in terms of the shape of the curve. Thats why I asked this question to kinda have some clarification around it. Because maybe even Tom knew the wrong thing back then and now he has improved his stuff. The nice thing about rts is that it is always evolving and getting better.

    #275972
    Simo Matikainen
    Participant

    Dude I am not trying to compare here so its not about well Joe you won the round, and tbh I would be careful before calling any RTS stuff as wrong, and if you havent seen the video that I mentioned above you cant possibly make the predicition that its wrong. Just like Joe’s graphs the ones there are a general representation for the representative muscles. The two graphs are different because its the difference between two joint muscles ( muscles that cross two joints e.g. biceps crosses over the shoulder joint and the elbow joint) and one joint muscles ( e.g. delts which only cross over the shoulder joint ). And I have seen Joe’s videos on the hypertrophy university and his graph about the delts looks different compared to the 2nd picture attached on my text above in terms of the shape of the curve. Thats why I asked this question to kinda have some clarification around it. Because maybe even Tom knew the wrong thing back then and now he has improved his stuff. The nice thing about rts is that it is always evolving and getting better.

    Didnt mean to throw any shade at RTS or necessarily compare who is better at what. Just saying Joes has great videos on resistance curves. It does seem like the right picture represents the general resistance curve of single joints well tho they are all little bit different.

    #276443
    Joe
    Keymaster
    #276535
    Rei Koka
    Participant

    Hey Joe. Thanks for the reply. The video of Tom was I think around 2019 or 2020, and yeah I get all the things about trends and stuff its just like you know the thing when you’re a nerd you want to learn everything even though thats not possible. Like when I saw the video of Tom and he separated biarticular muscles and monoarticular muscles that was smth new to me, as you mentioned you hadn’t really separated them, and he mentiones that in mono articular muscles, like delts for example the change in internal moment arm is so small that is almost non existent and basically the entire strength profile is literally determined from length-tension relationship. But because these muscles never truly get fully lengthened (stretched) they dont have that drop off in force in the maximum length they achieve so its more like they stop on the mid rang. I aaked this because this was the graph you had on resistance profile for delt raises.

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